Concerns about concerns

General
1

Hi even though I have dropped out of organizing this gathering, I was one of the people trying to get this thing going on for the past 3 years. I want to express some sentiments that i find concerning.

Over 3 years ago now i started trying to figure out where the big next gathering would be to celebrate GOSH’s big 10th anniversary.

We very transparently and very openly put together a big working group and documented what we were doing. We had interviews with places that we could do such a gathering with.

It was, again, very publicly whittled down to three places in Nepal Indonesia and the Netherlands. And the Indonesian group won.

This was about a year and a half’s worth of work put in by the group without any funding or anything.

Stuff got delayed, but meanwhile these forms really stalled out over the past 2 years.

Some people in the working group have still been tirelessly trying to work on this problem and continuing the work we started.

But recently, @julianstirling (I put his name here explicitly because it was in his instructions that he wanted this opinion shared publicly) and @griffey sent messages to this working group basically telling them they shouldn’t do it there and should think about whether the choices are “reflective of accessibility, equity, and affordability.”

There’s all kinds of things we could dig into here, and maybe this can be a space for everyone with newfound opinions to discuss these topics publicly, in a GOSH, kind of way.

But i want to point out that this kind of messaging can be very infuriating to people who are doing the work.

This community, in theory, is a do-cracy that prizes itself on having “no high priests.”

Instead it feels SUPER patriarchal for people who have not been involved in the past years of community work to just start lobbing complaints in from afar, about the very basics of what these people are trying to do.

The 10th anniversary came and went with crickets without anyone from the council or I think from the open source science foundation thingy doing or saying a thing.

I even made a whole day last year to be gosh day to try to spur on people or at least even people from the council to care or do anything.

It’s totally fine and dandy to have different opinions about how things should be done, but in a do-ocracy, one needs to back those complaints with attendance and community action, or else they are just taking pot shots from the sidelines at the unpaid people volunteering their time.

Also like nothing has been done and nothing has been set in stone, if anyone has super strong feelings about where such a gathering should be, just go and make a gathering wherever you want exactly where you want.

Us at dinacon went and did exactly that when it became clear GOSH wasn’t progressing.

2

Thanks for throwing this over here, Andrew…I’m still getting my feet under me as to culture and expectations for communication, but I’m happy to talk here! Just didn’t want to make any assumptions intially.

That feeling of “SUPER patriarchal” is exactly what I was trying to avoid, although given my position I don’t know if that’s entirely possible. Mea culpa if the language came over that way, as I was honestly trying to be as non-prescriptive as I could, while still emphasizing some worry. So if I failed in that, I apologize and I’ll do my best to do better in the future.

The feedback that I had received revolved around members of the community at large being concerned about whether they could attend given the front-runner locations. I’m taking those reports at face value, and just a cursory glance at travel logistics to either Bali or Kathmandu do make it feel like those would be challenging for large swaths of community members. At the same time, I am absolutely aware that I’m fairly new and still learning! If that is not the case (that is, if the broader GOSH community that would attend the 2026 Gathering isn’t worried about travel and logistics to either location) then consider my concerns irrelevant.

Given my position, I am acting on the knowledge that I have…which has nothing to do with the extremely difficult work of the Working Group, the efforts of volunteer labor that drives the Gathering, or anything else of that sort. I’ve done this work a long time, and organized a LOT of events, and I appreciate everyone that takes time to move these things forward. I see my job as helping to support the entirety of the GOSH community, and it would feel remiss if I didn’t bring concerns that had been expressed to me forward.

FWIW there are active plans afoot for the OSHF to celebrate the 10th anniversary of GOSH…there’s even a whole category here on the Forums for it that will hopefully get populated with amazing stories over the course of the year. You’ll be hearing more about that very soon!

3

Hey Andrew,

Thank you for starting this conversation. It’s been bubbling up via a variety of different communications over the past few weeks and I think it’s great that it’s been opened more publicly. In this reply, I want to be careful not to speak for anyone so I’d like to limit my response to your concerns about the 10th anniversary.

Since my start, I have understood that 2026 was the year that was best suited to a celebration, as it coincides with the 10th anniversary of the first Gathering. I have been working with the Council and with the Foundation to develop some programming around that, and was set - as Jason alluded to - to launch it all tomorrow, February 1. I have been holding off until tomorrow so that I could coordinate with the dispatch of the February newsletter.

I am working in a role that is designed to function at half the capacity that it has in the past. This is reflected in the admittedly modest plan that I have put together, however I am hopeful that with good engagement and participation from the Community, it might organically grow into something greater. I have already received some excellent suggestions from folks here on the Forum, which I think bodes well.

I do also help to facilitate the efforts of the Working Group, and consider myself less an innate part of that group than I do a coordinator, support, and two-way liaison serving both the Working Group and the Community. I am always available to chat and field concerns, both publicly and privately.

Kind regards,
Jamaica

4

I explicitly said my name could be shared with the working group. Not thrown around on a forum like dirt.

I specifically said I didn’t know if we had community there and that I would be happy to be corrected. I said that we have a huge community in Africa that has never been represented. I gave a personal opinion that I was happy to be shared. I was only happy for my name to be shared because I felt people on the working group might respect me enough to tell me why I was wrong, Not because I wanted my name to be dragged through the dirt.

I’m done here I think

5

Hi all – I am popping in with a quick moderator note.

Disagreement and strong views are part of any healthy community, but when things get publicly personal it makes it harder for everyone to engage productively.

I’d like to ask that we step back from direct call-outs and refocus on the substance of the issue. If there are concerns about behavior, the Code of Conduct outlines a process for handling those – that process is there so individuals don’t have to manage conflict alone or publicly.

Thank you for helping keep this important conversation constructive.

6

Hi, @julianstirling I’m sorry in that I had a misunderstanding from your message where you said you wanted the message shared, i thought you had been adamant about it being shared here as well and not just with the group, but I think I misunderstood.

I didn’t try to “drag your name like dirt,” but apologies if it came across that way.

Thanks for your response @griffey , I know you are just getting started in this role. I think people appreciate the concerns, but just wanted to help share the main point that when concerns that people have been working on for a long time in this community seemingly come from positions of power like “from above” they can feel more like orders.

I think one way of sidestepping these kind of misunderstandings or sentiments would be to join some of the working group meetings that are already taking place and help share those concerns there. Or reach out to the groups and invite them to have a discussion first and learn about what kinds of topics and specific things that they have been been toiling over. That might help make it more clear how someone in your role might be able to facilitate these things.

Again, appreciate the response.

1 Like
7

Thank you everyone for your posts, and for the willingness to engage openly here.

I want to start by acknowledging the concerns that have been raised about accessibility and equity. These are important considerations that the working group has also discussed at length throughout our process. We genuinely appreciate this feedback and welcome continued community input as we move forward (see Jamaica’s post with a community survey).

I also want to provide some context about the work that has gone into this process. Over the past 2+ years, our working group has invested countless volunteer hours, holding regular meetings among ourselves, conducting extensive outreach and conversations with communities and liaisons in Nepal, Indonesia, and the Netherlands, and working through a transparent, documented selection process. The decisions have never been made lightly. We have high respect for our commended work as working group to organize the event. Our work stands on the shoulders of giants, the many people who have made GOSH gatherings possible for years now.

Our deliberations considered multiple factors, including looking into underrepresented parts of the world where we had community liaisons. We also prioritized safety for LGBTQIA+ community members, which was an important consideration in our location discussions. We recognize that no location will work perfectly for everyone across all dimensions of accessibility and safety (it is always far for many), and we remain open to reconsidering our approach if the broader community feels strongly that we should. This is exactly the kind of conversation we need to have together, as a community.

So here’s my invitation (which I make personally and not in representation of the working group):

Join us. Our working group meetings are open, and we would genuinely welcome more people bringing their time, perspectives, and labor to help make this happen. If you have concerns or ideas about location, logistics, accessibility, or anything else, please come contribute to the discussion and the work.

Help us secure funding. One of the biggest challenges we face is resources. If anyone has capacity to help identify or pursue funding opportunities, that would be invaluable and could expand what’s possible in terms of accessibility support (travel grants, participation options, etc.).

To Andrew, Jamaica, Bri, and all the working group members past and present who have kept this effort alive through several years of volunteer work, thank you. Your dedication to this community is what makes gatherings like this possible at all.

Let’s keep this conversation going and figure out together how to make the next GOSH gathering as inclusive, accessible, and impactful as possible.

4 Likes
8

All, thank you for your care and openness throughout this discussion. I logged in this morning with the intent of saying pretty much exactly what JP did. Rather than repeat anything, I will follow up on two points:

  1. Gathering Working Group meetings are held every Monday at 19:30 UTC, via this link.
  2. Funding is indeed an ongoing challenge. If you have leads or ideas to share, or if you can lend some time but can’t make it to a Working Group meeting, please contact me - either here or via email (jamaica@openhardware.science) and I’d be happy to help coordinate.

One final note to share is that the Working Group has a dedicated email, which you can use to contact its volunteer members: gathering@openhardware.science.

This is, as JP has alluded to, a group of folks who have volunteered their time and expertise - in some cases, several hours of it each week - to help make this happen. Many thanks to all of them, and to everyone who has contributed to this conversation.

1 Like
9

Good morning, and thanks for having this discussion. I have served in the gathering working group of the first GOSH already, and was happy to join this one again, where seriously already more than 2 years of work, and regular meetings, and generally a great open and transparent process.

I can also fully support @juanpedro.maestre info here, but also drop some of my personal thoughts about where on the globe is suitable to host such gatherings, that we decided should vary locations every time. And yes everybody is invited to make more regional smaller bigger gosh related meetings anytime.

As our goal was in 2025 to cooperate with dinacon, use synergies of shared travel costs and partners, Bali was a great choice. it is also very easy to travel to and great VISA conditions for most of the world. When we couldnt secure funds for 2025, we had to halt, step back, pause a but and continued only recently to pick up preparing for 10 years anyversary GOSH to be held this year.

We also deeply reflected, that we should have more inputs of the community, to figure out what we want, and those survey’s are helping us, aswell as open discussions on this forum.

For travel / flying into a “far” place, i have to just mention again, as quoted “(it is always far for many)”, Indonesia is in the middle of Southeast Asia, next to Australia and also easy to reach from Japan or China. And then there is also the whole Indian subcontinent, hosting a huge number of open source enthusiasts, … so in my oppinion our current focus in this part of the world, is reaching billions of people that do NOT to have to fly very far. There are non-stop flights from Bangkok to Kathmandu for less then 200USD. Europe, north america, or africa possible below 800-1000. The most challening will be travel costs for people from latin america…

Greetings from Yogyakarta, yes it rains a lot…